88 lx recommendations

[fiernaq]

I have a 1988 Civic LX 4dr with what appears to be the stock D15B2 1.5L SOHC engine in it. I've owned this car for over 6 years and it's beginning to... "age". In the past, I used to drive this cross country, in one year even going from NC to MA to NM and back to NC again but now it's gotten to the point where I avoid highways when possible and steer clear of any mountains because the engine just doesn't have the power to make it safe to drive in those areas. I currently get about 30-35mpg and that's driving conservatively. My friends tell me I drive like a Grandma but I just don't see the point in leaping out of a green light or speeding like a bat out of hell down the highway. I'm not much of a car expert but I have managed to replace my distributor, alternator, and power steering pump when those each failed. I've tried reading the articles here and on several other forums and while they all contain good information they seem to say "all of these engines are good ones to swap in" without actually making specific recommendations for specific circumstances. I did find the post by 88lxer which seems very similar to mine but in the end it looks as though he just chose an engine for himself without waiting for input from the community and I'm not sure he made the best decision for my situation.

My goal: keep my lovely '88 but make it better. I need enough power to climb mountains but I don't need a ferrari; I need enough mpg to make commuting a pleasant experience but I don't need a hybrid that runs on corn. Basically, I'm not an extremist so I need something that works and that works efficiently.

I am prepared to replace at least the engine if not the transmission, suspension, exhaust, and anything else that would be best to swap at the same time. From what I can tell, some of the possible engine swaps would require new axles, new wiring, an MPFI system, and who knows what else. That's ok. I can always take my time and save up more money to do things right the first time.

Questions: Which engine would you recommend to me and why? How would this new engine affect the amount of power I have available? What would this new motor do to my MPGs? Could I improve on it by adding things like a cold air intake or a more efficient exhaust system? What all should I leave stock and what else besides the engine would you recommend I replace? Can I go with a manual transmission instead of an automatic and what all would that entail? If I have to replace the axles should I replace the wheels too? Do I need a DOHC or would a SOHC do just as well and if so then why have all engines seemingly gone to DOHC? Is VTEC an important consideration or just a side note and is it worth having for someone like me who doesn't plan on driving like a madman? When considering an engine swap like this where I want to be able to drive this same car for the next 10 years what else should I be prepared to swap at the same time in order to achieve maximum durability/lifetime of the car? Are there any other tips or pointers you could give me to make this process easier or give me a better understanding of what I'm getting myself into?

Thanks in advance for taking time out of your busy days to help someone like me who doesn't know very much about the car he drives.

*Note* I have read all of the stickied threads and searched through the forum already (although didn't get any hits for "88 lx" so had to manually scrub through as many pages as I could find). If this information can be found in one of those places I probably didn't understand it so if you could try to explain it to me in laymans terms while pointing me to where you found the information that would be much appreciated.

[fiernaq]

From what I gather, the D16Z6 may be the best engine for me but the ZC SOHC VTEC and the B16A also seem pretty good. Why make so many models other than to confuse the poor people like me trying to figure out which one to go with?

[88lxer]

Hi fiernaq,
I'm cuurently in the middle of my swap and it's going fine. Parts are getting harder to find for an older car. How many miles are on your car? Do you know which transmission you have? Do you intend to use automatic or manual transmission? How much time and money do you wish to spend? I chose the sohc zc because it required the least modification to the wiring and mounts, etc. PM me if you would like to compare notes. Good luck.

[fiernaq]

The car has only 160k miles on it and as far as I can tell I am the second owner. It was not very well maintained before me though and though it runs fine now it has broken down (not driveable) eight times in the last six years which indicates deeper problems than just replace a part here or there. That's why I would like to gut the car and rebuild it from scratch with all new or lightly used parts that I can trust. It's currently an automatic transmission but I don't know what kind other than that from the looks of it it's the original stock one for the car.

I would like to convert to a manual but if that's too much of a pain then it's something I can do without. I'd like to stick with a budget of less than $5k but since I don't know much about rebuilding cars I could be way off on my guesstimate of expenses and may have to revise my budget but either way I can always give it more time and save up more money rather than start the project now with less than what's needed and not be able to finish. As for time... considering the distributor, alternator, and power steering pump are the most work I've ever done on a car and I have no official training of any kind I was going to let a nearby import mechanic that I know do most of the work.

Is the ZC a decent engine? Was it just the ease of installment and the similarity between it and the stock engine that made you choose it or is it actually a big improvement? How does it compare in mpgs to the D16Z6 or the B16A or any of the other common swaps? Are you having to replace anything besides the engine or is that part of the upside to using the ZC?

Thanks for the quick reply. I look forward to learning a lot more about this whole engine swapping thing before I even begin work so the more information I can learn soon the quicker I can start the rebuild

[cougar289]

Just mpfi swap it, put a decent exhaust header on it, and a cold air intake. You can see gains of 20hp or so with these mods depending on the intake manifold you use. D16Z6 intake is the best. You could swap in a bigger camshaft for even more power too.

[2 Stroke Toy Chest]

for a non v application , hands down the D16a6 or Sohc ZC ( very similar to each other )

if you enjoy the higher rpm pulls , then a vtec motor will be better suited (D16z6 obd-1 / D16y8 obd-2)

since you dont want to be a mad man i would eliminate the options for B,H,K style swap .

the single cam motors will keep you in the high 20's to mid 30's, most aftermarket parts for the SOHC are cross capatible so in the future a header or CAI is a easy option .
in comparison to your current motor
D15b2 has like 90 bhp nad 102-105 ft-lbs
a D16a6 comes with 110 bhp and 115 ft-lbs ( numbers might noth be acurate its 4:00am for me )

the only differences between the 2 are ;one is DPFI (b2) and the other is MPFI (a6), different cam duriations , and slightly diff shaped interenal architectures.

if you already have a manual trans it should be a 5 speed , there would be no need to swap axels unless damaged . all cable drawn d-sereis transmissions omitting the 4 speed of doom (found in usdm STD model), have the same axel spline count .

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9501

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=97
these are good links to start compiling your research

[fiernaq]

Do I need VTEC if I never go beyond 5k RPMs? The D16A6 definitely appears to be the lesser engine stat-wise of the three but if it gets significantly better gas mileage then it's still a viable and perhaps even preferred option for me. Supposedly the ZC comes in a VTEC and non-VTEC version as well as a DOHC non-VTEC version. There are so many good engines I need to know more than just stats... those I can read up on any site... I need to know owners experiences with the engines to determine if they have enough power while still staying in the mid 30s for mileage. I need to know which ones are more durable and trustworthy and which ones tend to have problems later on down the road. I need to know the different in difficulty (and thus cost) to swap each engine out in order to determine if the pros and cons are worth the money. I currently have the stock automatic transmission.

The non-VTEC SOHC ZC is similar to the D16A6 ('91–'96) and D16Y4 ('96–2000) engine, but with more aggressive cam timing.
The SOHC VTEC ZC is similar to the D16Z6 ('91–'96).
The DOHC ZC is similar to the D16A1, D16A3, D16A8, D16A9 and D16Z5 engines.
D16A6 SOHC

Displacement : 1,590 cc (97 cu in)
Bore and Stroke : 75 × 90 mm (3.0 × 3.5 in)
Rod Length : 137 mm
Rod Ratio : 1.52~
Compression : 9.1:1
Power : 108 hp (80.5 kW, 110 ps) at 5,600 rpm
Note: 1988 engines were 105 hp (78.3 kW, 107 ps)
Torque : 100 lb·ft (13.9 kg/m, 136 Nm) at 4,800 rpm
Redline : 6,500 rpm (USA)
Rev limited to : 7,200 rpm
Valvetrain : SOHC (4 valves per cylinder)
Cam Gear: 38 Tooth
Fuel Control : OBD-0 MPFI
Head Code : PM3
ECU Code : PM6

D16Z6 SOHC? VTEC

Displacement : 1,590 cc (97 cu in)
Bore and Stroke : 75 mm × 90 mm (3.0 in × 3.5 in)
Rod Length : 137 mm
Rod Ratio : 1.52~
Compression : 9.2:1
Power : 125 bhp (92 kW, 125 PS) at 6,600 rpm
Torque : 106 lb·ft (14.7 kg/m, 144 Nm) at 5,200 rpm
Volumetric Efficiency : 87.68%
Redline : 7,200 rpm
Fuel Cut : 7,411 rpm
VTEC Switchover : 4,800 rpm
Fuel Control : OBD-1 PGM-FI
Head Code : P08
ECU Code : P28

ZC SOHC VTEC

Displacement : 1,590 cc (97 cu in)
Bore and Stroke : 75 mm × 90 mm (3.0 in × 3.5 in)
Rod Length : 137MM
Rod/Stroke : 1.52
Compression : 9.2:1
Power : 128 hp (95.6 kW, 130 ps) at 6,600 rpm
Torque : 107 lb·ft (14.8 kg/m, 145 Nm) at 5,200 rpm
Redline : 7,200 rpm
Fuel Cut : 7,300 rpm
VTEC Switchover : 5,500 rpm
Fuel Control : OBD-1 MPFI
ECU Code : P70 (Domani), P91 (Civic Coupé), P29

[2 Stroke Toy Chest]

D16a6 is the Si's stock motor . I have personall exp with both D16a6 and the SOHC non v ZC, those motors can still handle high end rpm pulls . with vtec the power curve is more set in the higher rpm band range 5k-9k(Sohc) 5k-12k(Dohc). non vtec motors are more torque based perfomace starting there power curves lower 3k-6k (Sohc) 2k-7k (Dohc)

I had a single zc with intake,header,exhaust , Aem pullys and a clutch masters stage 1 (street spec) combo. very potent underlooked platform . used to get called out by b16's and b18's in ef's ,eg's ,and ek's... even ran against a ep3 . The motor over all had a very good track record , but i built it not for big numbers but for response and reliabitly.

a obd-0 d series is going to more than likely be the most price freindly and simplistic swap
if you plan on keeping it auto then your axles and knuckels will work fine , just remeber to get a corisponinding ecu to go with whatever your choice is

[fiernaq]

Thanks for the info. Every little bit helps. I don't plan on racing so I guess what you're saying is that a non-VTEC motor should work just fine for me? I was doing ok on acronyms until I got to

[...] in ef's ,eg's ,and ek's... even ran against a ep3 .

What is "EF", "EG", "EK", and "EP3"?

I do want to change to a manual transmission if possible but other than that I'm ok with an OBD-0 engine so I guess that means the D16A6 or non-VTEC SOHC ZC which appears to be basically the same engine, just JDM.

---------------

I just spoke with a friend of a friend who told me I should either throw another stock D15B2 engine back in it or go straight to a B series because something like a D16A6 or a ZC or even a D16Z6 would be more expensive and not worth the trouble... Does he just not know what he's talking about or is he correct in that?

I then spoke with another friend who told me that VTEC allows for more power when needed without sacrificing MPGs because it changes the timing on the intake valves based on how many RPMs the engine is doing. With that being the case, VTEC would become a "sure, why not" kind of deal. Is there any reasons why I wouldn't want VTEC, DOHC, B series, or anything else we've mentioned besides the whole OBD-0 to a later OBD thing involved with the B series?

[gtviper2178]

well EF, EG, EK and EP3 are the chassi code for civics, ours is EF or ED for american market, and your buddy suggest a DOHC vtec swap because if you do a swap, its a one time thing and instant power but you need a lump of cash to get it done which means buying the motor and trans an etc to make it complete. also ZC isnt american so finding parts will be good and bad depending but thats going in depth. and nothing wrong with keeping obd0 but if you want to do performnce tuning then you bump up to obd1 because its newer and easier to work on when you go for more hp.

[fiernaq]

if you want it to be your daily drive, make that long trip everyday and last long then stay with the dpfi system (to save fuel) and do a proper tune-up. If you want some power at the expense of more fuel consumption then go mpfi and but some bolt-ons. Even a a6 engine can be considered in this. Instead of thinking of turbocharging your daily car you should repair everything that needs to and treat it nice, then concentrate on your monster v8 project . You will save money, always have one car to move around and have plenty of time on the project car.

Quoted from the More Power thread.

MPFI gives power at the expense of fuel consumption? I also found that the D15Z1 engine using the VTEC-E can get nearly twice the mpgs of a stock D15B2 with about the same (measly) 92 hp. This whole research project has turned into a nightmare of too many good choices. Can I try them all?

On a more serious note, would any of these engine swaps take me below 30-35 mpg? I can at least eliminate those options right away and then try to find the engine with the best power/cost ratio that stays above that mpg limit. I've already ruled out cougar's bored D15B2 high compression idea since I'm not a car guy and this is my dd so I need it to be reliable. Likewise, the D15Z6 appears to be more of a performance engine and not my style. The D16A6 seems like a viable option provided it has decent mpgs and I'm still confused by which ZC engines to look at.

[el_jelly]

Go with the a6.

[2 Stroke Toy Chest]

Go with the a6.

[fiernaq]

Alright, I'll take these recommendations to some mechanics and see who can price me out a better deal and let me in on some of the action (I really want to at least watch if not help with the swap even if I'm not a mechanic).

Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this or missing something but from what I can tell I get to keep it OBD-0 but I'll need to swap the DPFI for MPFI and throw in the MPFI wiring harness too, get a PM6 ECU and a 5-speed manual (cable?) transmission as well as the D16A6 1.6L SOHC non-VTEC engine. I should be able to keep my axles and shouldn't have to do any body work or need an engine mount. Should I go ahead and replace anything else in there while I'm at it besides just throwing a cold-air intake on? I'd like to replace the exhaust too but my current exhaust works fine for a non-performance car and is fairly new so it's at the bottom of my list for "in case I have enough money left over".

Much thanks for the tips

[el_jelly]

You have a LX so if it has std transmission it should be 5-speed like the Si tranny, the difference is in the gearing, in the Si is shorter (which helps performance but hurts gas mileage) while in the LX is longer (better mileage but not good for performance oriented people). You can use your stock tranny with the a6, z6 or other d series engines, save money and still get good performance out of it. Just get a new clutch kit if the current one is in bad shape, be sure it's for an 88 model, not 89-91.

You can keep your stock axles, the same for the exhaust.